Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism

Source. Question For "Support The Troops" Folks

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Start a war with someone like me and you'll commit suicide by fear rather than let me get you.

Along with the rest of your post, it does have a familiar ring to it.
I seem to recall an Austrian saying similar things to France, Poland... How'd that work out for him, anyway?

I have a friend of about 4 years, living in Baghdad. I speak to him 2-3 times a week. Murad cheered when our troops arrived. He genuinely believed our arrival was a great opportunity for his country to slip out from under Saddam. I've never heard him say one bad thing about our troops, or our presence. He's just not that kind of person. Over the years I've seen him struggle to keep his spirits up. I don't think I'd ever see him give that up, either.

From the last letter I received:

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I will give some of the examples about what the Iraqi minds facing here everyday that I was in contact with it cause it happened to my friends families.

Dr. Omar he was one of the top heart surgeon in the country and he was running the heart hospital in Iraq before the last war and after the war un till few months when he got a threat from unknown source. He received a letter asking him to leave Iraq or he would be killed with his family. With the letter there was a bullet. But he didn't complain to them and stayed and worked. After a week one of his sons who is my friend came close to being killed when some men opened fire on his car while he was driving to his home. But god saved him and he didn't get hurt. So after few days they left Iraq and Iraq lost a great doctor. Not to mention that Dr. Omar had 4 sons. 3 of them doctors and one is an engineer.

Dr. Ansaf she was a well know doctor in Iraq and she was running a hospital for pregnant women and delivery in Baghdad. She also received a letter asking her to leave Iraq or she or her family would get hurt. She also didn't complain, but continued working. A few days later, while arriving home, 4 cars stopped her and about 15 armed men kidnapped her. She had an awful time when she was kidnapped. She was released after a few days after paying about $80,000 in ransom and promising them to leave Iraq. So she left everything here and got out of Iraq. Her husband was a good doctor too and her daughter was a medical student who is my friend. And they all left Iraq

Dr. Ryiadh, he was my prof. in the college of medicine that I am in, and he was a practicing doctor too. He was really a great prof. and doctor. One of the best that I've met in college. He used to get threatening letters too. And he didn't care. But then he received a letter with a grenade at his home, but the grenade didn't explode. He left Iraq after that. His place at the college is empty. And we lost a great prof.

Even with all this I used to have hope that it would be a matter of time and we'd defeat all this and Iraq could get back on it feet and stand again. But now after seeing all this migration and killing of the Iraqi minds. This hope in me died. If this continues much longer say farewell to Iraq. Cause I think if these minds leave who would build Iraq. The country cant be build unless by the hands of its own ppl.

The man who created the biggest playground for terrorism in the world isn't sitting in a cave in Afghanistan, He's sitting in the White House, and he has no clue what he's done, or what comes next.

We were lied to. Repeatedly. Systematically. And when the lies were found out, they lied again. Recruitment isn't off because Americans are gutless. It's off because no one wants to go die for a lie.

Even Rumsfeld recently said we'll most likely be there 10-12 more years. So, about the 2,000 dead, and 16,000+ wounded for a lie, are we "keeping faith", "staying the course" by sending the another 12-16,000 to die, more injured for a lie? How many dead does it take to "honor" a lie?

The establishment of the Office of Special Plans, under Abe Shulsky, and including several military folks, a civil servant or two, and the larger group of neocon-friendly appointees or contractors, meant to the rest of us that we would have more space and a reduction in cross-regional chatter. The Iraq-war planning aspect would now be isolated from the rest of NESA and would establish its own rhythm and cadence, separate from the non-political-minded professionals covering the rest of the region. In planning a war, loose lips sink ships, and if anyone didn't remember this World War II slogan, the Pentagon had several posters in common areas to remind us. (Interestingly, the planning and execution of wars—writing and implementing war plans—is the function of the Combatant Commander, with the Joint Staff as chief technical advisor and the Undersecretary of Policy as policy advisor. The Secretary of Defense approves, but combatant commanders work directly for the president. Nowhere in OSD should one, by law, custom, or common sense, find people busy developing and writing war plans, even if they are special.)

If they were not writing war plans, the Office of Special Plans did produce something related to the upcoming war. By August, only the Pollyannas at the Pentagon felt that the decision to invade Iraq, storm Baghdad, and take over the place (or give it to Ahmad Chalabi) was reversible. What was still being worked out at that time was the propaganda piece.

felt fortunate not to have being fired or court-martialed due to my politically incorrect ways in the previous two years as a real conservative in a neo-conservative Office of Secretary of Defense. But in fact, my outspokenness was probably never noticed because civilian professionals and military officers were largely invisible. We were easily replaceable and dispensable, not part of the team brought in from the American Enterprise Institute, the Center for Security Policy, and the Washington Institute for Near East Affairs.

There were exceptions. When military officers conspicuously crossed the neoconservative party line, the results were predictable—get back in line or get out.

There were several shared prerequisites to get on the Neoconservative List of Major Despicable People, and in spite of the rhetoric hurled against these enemies of the state, most really weren't Rodents of Unusual Size. Most, in fact, were retired from a branch of the military with a star or two or four on their shoulders. All could and did rationally argue the many illogical points in the neoconservative strategy of offensive democracy—guys like Brent Scowcroft, Barry McCaffrey, Anthony Zinni, and Colin Powell.

I was present at a staff meeting when Deputy Undersecretary Bill Luti called General Zinni a traitor. At another time, I discussed with a political appointee the service being rendered by Colin Powell in the early winter and was told the best service he could offer would be to quit.

When President Bush gave his State of the Union address, there was a small furor over the reference to the yellowcake in Niger that Saddam was supposedly seeking. The OSP list of crime and evil included a statement relating to Saddam’s attempts to seek fissionable materials or uranium in Africa. (Our point, written mostly in the present tense had conveniently omitted dates of the last known attempt, some time in the late 1980s.)

Around that same time, our deputy director forwarded a State Department cable that had gone out to our embassy in Turkey. The cable contained answers to 51 questions that had been asked of our ambassador by the Turkish government. The questions addressed things like after-war security arrangements, refugees, border control, stability in the Kurdish north, and occupation plans. But every third answer was either “To be determined” or “We’re working on that” or “This scenario is unlikely.” At one point, an answer included the “fact” that the United States military would physically secure the geographic border of Iraq. Curious, I checked the length of the physical border of Iraq. Then I checked out the length of our own border with Mexico. Given our exceptional success in securing our own desert borders, I found this statement interesting.

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski recently retired from the U.S. Air Force. Her final posting was as an analyst at the Pentagon.

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I'll care when the American media stops pretending that
their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

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When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi
prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.

Then I'm sure she won't mind one more "fuzzy photograph"

I'm sure any one of her sons wouldn't mind this "college hazing prank". Suffocated off and on for approximately 24 hours. In a final fit of slapstick college humor, the body was then frozen, so an accurate time of death couldn't be established.

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Indeed, the single most iconic image to come out of the abuse scandal—that of a hooded man standing naked on a box, arms outspread, with wires dangling from his fingers, toes and penis—may do a lot to undercut the administration's case that this was the work of a few criminal MPs. That's because the practice shown in that photo is an arcane torture method known only to veterans of the interrogation trade. "Was that something that [an MP] dreamed up by herself? Think again," says Darius Rejali, an expert on the use of torture by democracies. "That's a standard torture."

The White House was undeterred. By Jan. 25, 2002, according to a memo obtained by NEWSWEEK, it was clear that Bush had already decided that the Geneva Conventions did not apply at all, either to the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

The administration also began "rendering"—or delivering terror suspects to foreign governments for interrogation. Why? At a classified briefing for senators not long after 9/11, CIA Director George Tenet was asked whether Washington was going to get governments known for their brutality to turn over Qaeda suspects to the United States.

Syria... Syria... rings a bell... Oh yeah! Monday Bush is going to the UN because Syria is such a despicable regime, he wants Action! Gee, isn't international law handy? Didn't mean a damn when he wanted to torture people, now it does again. Didn't mean a damn when he killed a UN treaty that would've made Israel admit whether or not they have nukes. But it means everything when he wants an excuse to go after Iran.

Lets dust off the old rag, and see if theres a bit of wisdom in it, shall we?

Article VI: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Now by all accounts, George Washington wasn't what you'd call a "brilliant man". Stubborn and determined, he did a good job of commanding men though. He also gave us some of the best advice we never listened to" Beware of foreign entanglements"

Now, whadya s'pose he meant by that? Think he was worried over foreign aid? Nah! we were broke, really. No I think he'd just lost a lot of men, getting the rest free, and he knew a bit about what was in this document.

Take a look at that piece of article IV up there. what's it mean? You anti-WTO people should be real familiar with it. Washington was warning us about one of the biggest holes they left in our sovereignty. It was done because we were a young country, we'd already changed our government once, and we needed to present a credible face to older governments to do business with them.

See where it says "any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." ?

Notwithstanding means, regardless of anything that might've come before. It means there's really TWO ways to change the Constitution:
1. You get an amendment passed.
2. You sign and ratify a treaty.
Both will overturn any written law, County, State, or Federal, or any judicial decision. We sign one, it becomes part of the Constitution. (gettin' a glimmer here?)

Next, Gonzales, who btw is now Atty Gen., and a fool. And GW is a bigger fool for putting him there. It was his bit of sophistry, they all thought so clever to create the fantasy of "enemy combatants". No such thing exists, and it's irrelevant anyway. See, the Geneva convention isn't about how your prisoners get treated by the enemy, it's about how you treat the prisoners you capture.

The other rabbit they pulled outa the hat says that it doesn't apply because these guys aren't from any country, so it doesn't apply to them! Sorry, it doesn't talk about where they came from, it concerns what happens after you have them.
People forget that while you never make the mistake of fighting this war in the past, you'd best keep in mind that you are fighting the next one. Remember should this nation survive to fight another major war, that in this one, we not only ignored the Geneva convention, we didn't even bother to make a good case for why we didn't. Y'all remember how that turned out for Japan?

I'm conservative by by nature, Republican only to the extent of shared goals, no longer. When the Brownshirts that hijacked my party have left, I may return to it.

Meantime, I will insist my country's government abide by the agreement with it's citizens that makes it legitimate, or I will be about the business of seeing it turned out in favor of one that will. (4 years ago) At 53 I don't have many fights left in me, but this one is worth it.